The General Authenticity of Autographs

[mickeygubitosifan]

I wasn't completely sure in which forum this should be posted, but this one seemed best.

I'm sure that many (if not most) Our Gang fans have looked around on Ebay to see what interesting items related to The Gang may have surfaced. In my own Ebay searches I have come across a wide variety of Our Gang items, but it's some of the autographed pieces that most catch my attention...and sometimes give me pause. Having only a modest amount of experience in this field I'd like to ask collectors with deeper knowledge of the subject a question: How can one best tell if an Ebay auction of an autographed Our Gang item is the real thing?

For instance, there's this autographed photo of Jay R. Smith:

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400108595623&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_1188wt_807

Then, there's this postcard that is said to be signed by Jackie Davis:

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190391114929&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_759wt_1041

This next one is perhaps the most potentially fascinating of all that I've seen. It's described by the seller as "A vintage original 5x7 inch photo with signatures on back of Harry Spear and Farina from Our Gang Little Rascals c. 1929":

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380271980034&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_11985wt_807

Could it be real? Is there any way to determine the authenticity of such a signature with any degree of certainty? I mean, if the Harry Spear and Farina autographs were certifiably genuine then I would be tempted to go after such an item even at its hearty price, but I simply have to plead lack of knowledge in this area, as I really just don't know much about how the autograph business works. If I put out a lot of money for something, though, I'd like to be sure that it's what I think it is.

I don't mean to cast suspicion on any Ebay seller. Even if an autograph were to be not real, the seller might not be aware of that, themselves. I just mean to ask if anyone has any advice on this subject.

Thank you.

[zootmoney]

The first two look legitimate, and the 3rd might be. I have seen some vintage Farina autographs out there, but don't know where to look for them now. It seems hard to imagine someone other than Harry writing that poorly on the item. Nothing against Harry, just saying that someone else writing it would probably make it look better. Harry was 7.

[zootmoney]

Here is a 1929 book, that might have been signed in 1930. Harry's signature seems to have improved.

guaranteedautographs.com/ourgalira19b.html

[rhapsody]

I'm no expert on autographs, but if there are legit signatures on the book, they were probably obtained at a convention or something years after the book was published. Which makes the Harry Spear autograph particularly questionable.

The signatures of Farina and Harry on the back of the photo do look age appropriate with Farina being about 8 or 9 and maybe just learning cursive and Harry about 7 and just learning his letters (although not particularly well). The kids made lots of public appearances during that time period, so it's quite possible it's something they signed in person. Not sure I'd pay 750 bucks for it though, especially if there isn't some history that explains how and where they were obtained.

[rascalwatcher]

I know all the autographs I have are legitimate. But then again, they are from the Rascals as adults. The troubling thing is that I had an autographed picture of Spanky McFarland, but it has been lost. I can't imagine where it went, but I'm pretty sure I'll never find it again - it wasn't in my box of Rascals stuff at my parents' old house, and they have moved three times since then. If it was among other things, it's gone now.

[ymymeatemup]

Items signed when they were adults are usually legit, I think. The Jay R. signature looks the way it normally does on his items. I haven't seen enough Jack Davis signatures to be sure about his, though. The risky thing with autographs from little kids is that just about anybody could fake it, especially if they have their six-year-old do it for them. I think there'd have to either be a ton of authentication paperwork, or another autograph from the same person at the same age to make the comparison. There are definitely people on eBay who have tried to sell phony Our Gang stuff.

[kar120cc]

I met and got Stymies autograph in the early 70's at our local Jack in the Box.

Since he was/is my fav our gang member that's about as much as I have ever investigated into such things. However the #3 if real is pretty awesome.

[mickeygubitosifan]

Okay, thanks for all of the replies. What has been said so far is similar to the way that I view things. Some autographs will naturally be rarer than others (Harry Spear's, for one), and the longer ago that the item was signed, the harder it will be (in most cases) to thoroughly authenticate it.

What confuses me most are the differences between apparently reputable sellers in how they confirm the validity of their items. Some such sellers give certificates of authenticity with any signed piece as "proof" that it's real. Yet, I've seen the listings of other ostensibly reliable sellers who say that they never distribute COAs because they are meaningless. I don't know who's right about that. What exactly are certificate of authenticity, anyway, and whose authority is behind them? Or is it a fluctuating standard of proof?

I've also observed that some sellers say they've had experts confirm that an autograph is real (check the Jackie Davis auction, for one example), but I'm not always sure how the experts can be confident of their conclusions. Especially if the signer was very young when he or she was famous, with constantly changing fine motor skills and writing style and a comparably small pool of known autographs to examine (i.e., Harry Spear), positively identifying a signature, in my view, seems to be a very difficult prospect. I guess they have to work with what they have, though.

Since I received a few opinions on the specific authenticity of the auctions that I cited previously, I'd like to ask about one more. This is a card said to have been signed by Johnny Downs:

cgi.ebay.com/Johnny-Downs-Our-Gang-Little-Rascals-Signed-Autograph-/220339254803?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item334d3e3613#ht_1912wt_1041

Thanks again for the input of everyone who replied to my original question. I appreciate that you took the time to give me advice.

[rhapsody]

There are several autographs of Johnny's on line for you to look at as a comparison. Here is one here.

www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/johnny-downs-autograph-photograph-77705929

Looks the same to my untrained eye.

[zootmoney]

Well, here is another Harry Spear autograph, for comparison:
cgi.ebay.com/Our-Gang-Rare-Oversize-Photograph-Signed-Cast-/350420952243?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5196b764b3

[mickeygubitosifan]

So, the main thing I see in common with the replies in this thread is that a serious collector who wants to make sure he or she is getting the genuine article when it comes to autographed memorabilia has to be proactive about finding outside sources that indicate the authenticity of the signatures. That makes sense. In some cases it will be harder to check than in others, of course, but at least buyers can become better educated about what they're purchasing, and thereby increase their chances of success.

[mickeygubitosifan]

Well, I broke down and decided to make an offer on the photo mentioned earlier in this thread, the one that is advertised as having been signed by Harry Spear and Farina:

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380271980034#ht_13014wt_700

I'm not sure if it would be better for my offer to be accepted or rejected, though. The starting price of the item was set at seven hundred fifty dollars and I offered less than thirty, on the off chance that the seller might be willing to go for the deal if he or she can't find a buyer. Even so, I probably wouldn't have made the offer if the merchant's feedback score were not as impressive as it is, a one hundred percent positive mark.

I'll let you all know if I win it, but I don't expect my offer to be approved.

[bdbop]

I'm sort of new to this board (sort of stumbled across it by accident). I actually have nice collection of Our Gang signatures (many vintage) and can at least assist anyone who might have a question on any of them.

I know someone mentioned Harry Spear. I have a vintage photo signed by Spear (and also Farina-first name only). It also has the sigs of Joe Cobb, Jean Darling, Mary Ann Jackson and Wheezer on it.

However, the Wheezer matches up to the inscription on the photo, so am thinking he may not have signed it. However, I just purchased a Bobby Hutchins (Wheezer" signed photo - only one I have ever seen) that was signed when he was a bit older, so I will be able to compare somewhat.

I do have vintage sigs though from: Spanky, Alfalfa, Darla, Scotty, Dickie, Jackie Cooper, Johnny Downs, Mickey Daniels and Buckwheat and latter sigs from about 30, so if you need me to look at something, just let me know.

Bart
[e-mail]

[mickeygubitosifan]

Apr 27, 2011 21:47:14 GMT -5 bdbop said:

I do have vintage sigs though from: Spanky, Alfalfa, Darla, Scotty, Dickie

Would that be Dickie Moore or Dickie Jones? I figure that it's probably one of those two. Of course, a Dickie Jackson autograph would be a nice find!

[bigshotjones]

Any chance you've got one of those ultra-rare Samuel Kilunk autographs? ;D