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Post by Buppster on Jun 22, 2018 15:05:22 GMT -5
I just came across The McDougall Alley Kids in " Oh Boy!" (1927). I know you've got it but this is a restored copy of it and perhaps it's better than the version that you already have. If not, well it's free to watch for anyone else who is interested. Simply click on the link below. Oh Boy (1927) |
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Post by mtw12055 on Jun 22, 2018 15:34:00 GMT -5
I just came across The McDougall Alley Kids in " Oh Boy!" (1927). I know you've got it but this is a restored copy of it and perhaps it's better than the version that you already have. If not, well it's free to watch for anyone else who is interested. Simply click on the link below. Oh Boy (1927)Yep, that's the version I have. The girl in the group is Mary Ann Jackson's older sister "Peaches." The two black kids, along with brother James, went on to form the Berry Brothers, an act similar to the Nicholas Brothers. Albert Schaeffer is the chubby kid, and supposedly Buddy Williams is the leader. I've been told the rich kid is an uncredited Ivan Randoll. Worth noting the IMDB cast info for this short was partially put together by me, based on the opening credits, and other info I was able to find. I'd assumed Elmo Billings was the rich kid, based solely on process of elimination. However, the guy who runs the Young Hollywood Hall of Fame website identified him as Randoll. Elmo is listed in the opening titles, but he's nowhere to be found here. I don't know for sure if one of the other kids is indeed Breffni Beggs, as I don't know what he looks like. For that matter, I don't know if Jack Gauther is the chauffeur. He could very well have been a kid at the time. As with Elmo, it's possible that neither Beggs nor Gauther are even in this film. EDIT: Just attempted to fix the IMDB info. We'll see if it goes through properly. |
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Post by Buppster on Jun 22, 2018 17:14:43 GMT -5
I just watched Oh Boy! and it was very derivative, some elements, such as the posh sissy boy beating the whole gang, up have been stolen straight from Our Gang shorts. It was interesting but it wasn't funny. I couldn't spot Elmo Billings in it either. I rather liked Buddy though, even if he was a bit of a Mickey McGuire rip off, as he was the only one of the crew who had a distinct personality.  Two questions for you. Are any of the McDougall Kids shorts available on DVD? Was Buddy in any of the others? |
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Post by mtw12055 on Jun 22, 2018 18:00:33 GMT -5
I just watched Oh Boy! and it was very derivative, some elements, such as the posh sissy boy beating the whole gang, up have been stolen straight from Our Gang shorts. It was interesting but it wasn't funny. I couldn't spot Elmo Billings in it either. I rather liked Buddy though, even if he was a bit of a Mickey McGuire rip off, as he was the only one of the crew who had a distinct personality. View AttachmentTwo questions for you. Are any of the McDougall Kids shorts available on DVD? Was Buddy in any of the others? As far as I know, there's only one on DVD right now - "The Big Pie-Raid." It's featured on the DVD "Kid Gangs and Juvenile Stars" from Looser Than Loose. The company also included a couple of toy projector fragments from McDougall shorts ("Oh Boy!" and "Yankee Doodle.") www.looserthanloose.com/main1.htmlThere are also a couple online - "Fat and the Canary," a really tough one to sit through, and "Fowl Play," a slightly better film, if only for its finale. Something common that you'll find in the McDougall comedies - aside from material stolen from the Our Gang shorts - is that there usually isn't much in terms of a plot. "Fat and the Canary" especially seems to be loaded with filler material. archive.org/details/BillSpragueCollectionFatAndTheCanaryarchive.org/details/FOWLPLAYMcDougallAlleyKidsSilentABrayComedyBuddy Williams isn't in either one, but does apparently show up in some of the other early entries. A film article from 1926 mentioned that the McDougall cast (the same batch credited in "Oh Boy!") was originally supposed to have starred in a series for Arrow Pictures as "The Arrow Kids." Not sure why that didn't pan out. Since Buddy is listed in that article, I'm assuming he was in at least a handful of McDougalls. J. R. Bray, better known for his cartoon work, picked it up, and Joe Rock directed much of the first season of shorts. Sometime after Rock left, the cast changed. In the two shorts I've posted links to, as well as "The Big Pie-Raid," the cast includes "Tiny Tim" (Bobby Newman), a Joe Cobb knock-off; "Oatmeal" (Hannah Washington), a Farina knock-off; and Free Gin (Arthur Aoyama), a Chinese stereotype. I don't know who the majority of the other kids in these later films are, but Artye Folz ("Teacher's Pet," "The Pooch") shows up in at least a couple. |
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Post by Buppster on Jun 23, 2018 4:54:48 GMT -5
I've downloaded Oh Boy! from The Internet Archive and I found and downloaded two short snippets from The Big Pie Raid and Yankee Doodle on YouTube. I'm currently in the process of downloading the two shorts that you provided the links to. I've searched around online and I've just found (and bought) a second hand DVD called Kid Comedy Rarities by A-1 Video, which apparently includes a McDougall Alley Kids short called Kid, Cats And Cops. The DVD also contains two Mickey McGuire shorts ( Mickey's Clean Up and Mickey The Detective), two Big Boy shorts ( Sea Scamps and On The Train) and a Barr Comedy called What Price Orphans? So I'm looking forward to watching those, especially as I haven't see On The Train before either. According to IMDb Buddy Williams was in two shorts with Baby Patsy, Jack & The Beanstalk and Hansel & Gretel but I can't find any sign of either online. It's a pity as Johnny Fox was in Hansel & Gretel too.   And he was apparently in the 13th Alarm, a Hey Fellas short too.  |
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Post by Buppster on Jun 23, 2018 5:27:42 GMT -5
I'd quite like to watch The Magnificent Six and 1/2 and maybe Here Come The Double Deckers as I know that Len Jones was definitely in The Magnificent Six and 1/2 and, although there's no mention of it on IMDb, I'm sure that I once read that he was in the Double Deckers too. He's on the left in the white shirt and cap.  Len was probably best known for being the voice of TV puppet Joe 90 He was in numerous TV series in the late 1960s and early 1970s and also appeared in two pretty well known movies, Straw Dogs with Dustin Hoffman and Spring & Port Wine as James Mason's youngest son.  Len Jones also starred in a TV series called Danny Jones as the eponymous character. I've wanted to see it for quite some time and thanks to mentioning him in this thread it reminded me to have another search for it, so I did and finally I've actually found it on DVD. So, I've just ordered it  |
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Post by mtw12055 on Jun 23, 2018 11:11:02 GMT -5
I've downloaded Oh Boy! from The Internet Archive and I found and downloaded two short snippets from The Big Pie Raid and Yankee Doodle on YouTube. I'm currently in the process of downloading the two shorts that you provided the links to. I've searched around online and I've just found (and bought) a second hand DVD called Kid Comedy Rarities by A-1 Video, which apparently includes a McDougall Alley Kids short called Kid, Cats And Cops. The DVD also contains two Mickey McGuire shorts ( Mickey's Clean Up and Mickey The Detective), two Big Boy shorts ( Sea Scamps and On The Train) and a Barr Comedy called What Price Orphans? So I'm looking forward to watching those, especially as I haven't see On The Train before either. According to IMDb Buddy Williams was in two shorts with Baby Patsy, Jack & The Beanstalk and Hansel & Gretel but I can't find any sign of either online. It's a pity as Johnny Fox was in Hansel & Gretel too. View AttachmentView AttachmentAnd he was apparently in the 13th Alarm, a Hey Fellas short too. View AttachmentI've bought this and a similar DVD of Kid Comedies from A-1 a few years before they apparently closed shop. Curious, where did you find your copy? "Kids, Cats and Cops" is another one that borrows heavily from Our Gang. The last five minutes, which has practically nothing to do with the rest of the film, is basically a shortened version of "Giants Vs. Yanks." The two McGuire shorts are actually "Mickey's Busy Day" and "Mickey's Disguises," both shortened versions with music added, and retitled for the home movie market. They were originally presented this way in the feature compilation "Mickey the Great" (though every copy I've seen so far has a huge jump cut where the "Busy Day" footage evidently was supposed to be!) Interesting thing about "Mickey's Busy Day." It was the first McGuire comedy Mickey Rooney did after a full season absence. During that period, Marvin Stephens (who usually played "Katrink") filled in as McGuire. Like Rooney, he had to dye his hair black for the role. In "Busy Day," Marvin returns to playing Katrink, but the black hair dye hasn't worn off yet. "On the Train" is, if I'm not mistaken, "No Fare." It features a rather bizarre, but still kind of cute gag where Big Boy mistakes a little person for a little girl. True to his nature, Big Boy falls for her. Did we mention "Sea Scamps" earlier in this thread? Harry Spear is in it, as is Jack McHugh, Leon Holmes, and a few others. Also Margaret Mann. The print of "What Price, Orphans?" A-1 included has about a minute's worth of 'jittery' film. You may want to also download the version available on the Internet Archive. Combining those two should give you a complete print. As for Len Jones, he only appeared in the first season of "Six and 1/2" shorts. He was replaced by Robin Davies the next season, supposedly because of other commitments. He actually never appeared in "Here Come the Double Deckers!" In fact, 20th Century Fox, the series' American distributor, requested no one from the "Six and 1/2" series be involved. Despite this, Jones' cast mates Brinsley Forde and Michael Audreson did make it through to "Double Deckers." Jones and Ian Ellis, another "6 1/2" kid, wound up being cast in the BBC kid series "Adventure Weekly." It only ran for 13 episodes, and about 4 of those are known to have survived. As of the recording of this interview, Jones was working in a warehouse. Note that he does mention appearing in "Double Deckers," but he's actually confusing it with "6 1/2." m.youtube.com/watch?v=b5qGF7RefAsThere are a few "6 1/2" shorts on YouTube. If you search around, you might find used DVDs of a series called "Saturday Morning Pictures." Four of these were released, each containing two Children's Film Foundation features, and two bonus "6 1/2" shorts (four with Jones, four with Davies). There is also an old VHS tape that compiles the entire first season. It pops up on eBay from time to time. The entire "Double Deckers" series is on DVD, which includes a bonus interview with Brinsley Forde and Michael Audreson. In it, they mention the "Our Gang" connection. www.amazon.co.uk/Here-Come-Double-Deckers-DVD/dp/B003WUXIYK/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1529770442&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=here+come+the+double+deckers&dpPl=1&dpID=51AzQj4m17L&ref=plSrch |
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Post by Buppster on Jun 24, 2018 4:37:50 GMT -5
I bought Kid Comedy Rarities by A-1 Video on one of the Price Minister sites, I'm not sure which one because I regularly check several of them, as well as Tradera and a few other sites looking for interesting items. Hopefully the DVD will arrive before the end of the coming week. We did mention Sea Scamps before. I've downloaded a good copy of it from the Internet Archive. Apparently before he was in The Magnificent Six and a Half in 1968 Len Jones (bottom left in the first picture) was in another similar kids TV series called (this is a link) The Queen Street Gang  |
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Post by Buppster on Aug 30, 2018 4:45:33 GMT -5
I've recently watched The Century Comedy Kids in Speed Boys (1924) and the casting was such an obvious rip off of Our Gang. Just like Our Gang they had a fat boy, a black boy, a freckle faced boy and a pretty girl with ringlets. Spec O'Donnell, who played the freckly boy, came across as more of a possible inspiration for the Kibrick brothers than as a rip off of Mickey Daniels. The big departure from the Our Gang type line up was the inclusion of Arthur Trimble, in his pre Buster Brown days. Arthur's character and appearance seemed to have drawn it's inspiration from Jackie Coogan's 'kid.' Nevertheless, derivative or not, the short was was actually reasonably entertaining. Arthur in particular seemed to be genuinely enjoying himself. Of particular interest was the train, did that come before or after The Sun Down Limited?    |
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Post by mtw12055 on Aug 30, 2018 13:09:17 GMT -5
"The Century Kids" is a series that I know very little information about. But it would appear that it was originally built around Buddy Messinger before he got a series of his own. That's just a guess, though. Some sources list him for appearing in "Speed Boys," but he's nowhere to be found. Reports at the time say that he was working on other projects as Century, but I have seen Our Gang style comedies from that studio built around Buddy. In fact one even features Pete the Pup.
The black kid is James "Bubbles" Berry who was considered a star of sorts at Century at the time. He was often stuck wearing those atrocious big lips. The chubby kid is Tommy Hicks. Both boys popped up in a number of rival Gang series.
1924 movie magazine articles imply that "Speed Boys" was completed around June. "The Sun Down Limited" was completed in early May.
Al Herman is credited as director in these same articles. He later became the primary director for the Mickey McGuire comedies. Interestingly, the book "The Life and Times of Mickey Rooney" claims that Herman asked Bob McGowan to do some uncredited supervision on the earliest McGuire comedies so that he could have a better understanding of how to work with kids. I wonder if that actually happened during the Century series.
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Post by Buppster on Aug 30, 2018 14:44:28 GMT -5
Wasn't Buddy in the Johnny Jones (AKA Edward Peil Jr) series of shorts.  I just saw these old Century adverts online, for Buddy Messinger movies...   |
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Post by mtw12055 on Aug 30, 2018 18:06:29 GMT -5
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Post by Buppster on Aug 31, 2018 4:58:51 GMT -5
It wasn't very good. It doesn't help that it's cut into tiny segments. It might be better as a continuous short but even so, Buddy lacked charisma or anything to make him stand out as a unique individual, he could have been just anyone.
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